Talk:Ship Connection
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< Lot of stuff deleted >
Please add the new comments at the top, below the new specs.
Not sure at the moment how easy or bad it is for the Mivorari to get fuel. But the (Aphelium Mineral Miner) which costs only 25 MC and offer some defense too, should help a lot with fuel problems. Hyping and (Hyperspace Tap), (Hyperspace Tow) save fuel, think a lot compared with normal warp travel and it maybe that the different gates helps saving fuel too. Looking at the RCS Target Enhancer, it use 30 KT fuel per combat and their Nawole ships have fuel tanks of 380 + 450, so in line with the like the (Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner) with its 420 fuel tank. And the (Mivorari White Star Monitor) can load up to 3000 fuel, so should not become a problem during combat.
Other idea maybe, using extra Energy for the Connection, like the Aczanny ECM Jammer. Think should be 150 or more as both ships have 2 Generator slots and 2 + 4 engine slots and not so much weapons. This shall lead to using midsize to good Generators to be used.
- Maybe 150 or more energie
- or depending on the number of ships using their ship device (the connection) there must be used a + 5-10 or so Energie drain per combat tick and if the engines/generators are damaged and is not enough Energie then the connection for this ship is shut off. But this needs a check each combat tick. So maybe enough to check it only at the beginning and then it hold for the whole fight or until the ship is destroyed and then is checked for a new ship which not used his device to establish a new connection.
- or third, the surplus energie drain depends on the number of ships which get the bonus. Say again + 5-10 energie per ships getting the Bonus. This then offer a limit how many ships can get a Bonus too. If one of the ships which get the Bonus is destroyed then there must only be looked if there is an other ships which is not connected yet and it connects and get the Bonus from now on.
JoSch
I likes the Energy cost better then the fuel cost thing at this moment. I have also a new idea for the Hyperspace Tap.
A fixed cost for the Ship Connection in battle is a good one, but how more ships are in battle the cheaper the device will be. So I thought about this:
- 180 Energy cost for a fleet of max 60 ships,
- 360 Energy cost for a fleet from 61 to 120 ships.
- 540 Energy cost for a fleet from 121 ships.
The Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner can't feed a fleet with more then 120 ships and the Mivorari White Star Monitor can't feed a fleet more then 180 ships. The more ships are connected the the Ship Connection the less energy the Ship Connection ship has for his own weapons. Thats also a weak point in the defense. I will say, the Defense Points will stop working as last in the process. First the Large Weapons will be shut down, then the Small Weapons and as last the Point Defense weapons if there is to little energy to feed the weapons. I think this a great idea! ;)
The VCR will calculate at the begin of the battle this size of the fleet and at some points. Say after a Super weapons had fired and at every 100 tick. If the fleet started with 70 ships and has lost 15 ships between the 2 calculations the ships with Ship Connection will use for then 180 energy points.
I also think this is better to program then the other ideas.
I hope you will also look to the other parts of the Mivorari race pack. Maybe both of you see other things who can be better. I am planning to send the race pack begin next year to Magik/Tim.
--Mivorari 16:28, 9 December 2007 (CET)
I like the energy cost more than the fuel cost good call ! Lord Lancelot 15:38, 10 December 2007 (CET)
Have you calculated with the "Engines and power generators have 150% normal energy output." advantage the Mivorari get? If yes it looks okay for me now.
Can look at other parts too. But don't know much about GC or Fighter combat and on the Income depends on so many factors, that I often lost the overview. IMHO the income must be tested in a sim. But as they can not use Natives (only some for HG and Troops conversion) and not sell contra, they have a great penalty in many game settings. Where do I have to look, don't like it so much to look on 20 or more pages. At the moment I see nothing new at the Hyperspace Tap.
JoSch
With the new Limitation description it looks well defined and clear written. And I think it is with this studs more or less in balance. JoSch.
I did some little text change in the hyperspace tap section. Nothing big.
Yes, I did thought about the 150% energy output for the Mivorari race. The only thing I am forgotten, is that the Ship Connection will be subtract from the energy before everything else.
Most of all other things can be tested if the race pack is released, some things can be corrected from the text. Some errors of me or other things I am forgotten. Someone else can see the text in an other light, of how do you say that in English.
I can not say where to look now.
--Mivorari 01:16, 10 December 2007 (CET)
I found the HP in the meantime. Think they is uptodate and there it is much easier to read and find sth. as you could see in some comments about their income. Don't know what you mean there in English, is not my natural language.
JoSch
I'm not sure about, but IMHO the +100 Evasive seems me to much. I remember the discussion about the Scavanger and their Inamorata that the Evasive of 80 (110 with ET) is to high and Fighter seems to be useless against this ship. So the big Mivorari Ellipse Dreadnought with a Super Weapon and a standard Evasive of 10 comes to an Evasive of 110 to. Who or how shall the ship ever be destroyed. And some other Mivorari ships come to a very high Evasive of 170 Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner and 200 Mivorari White Star Monitor. That are the ships with the the device, so how should they be destroyed and the Evasive Bonus from the Device broken in a combat? That may become special for Fighter races a really big problem or for races which have no good warships with a high attack Bonus. And the 1/2 odds of the PD against incoming Large Weapon fire do not much help, as the LW only have a little change to hit the ships, so that the Pds are not often used.
Will the Bonus recalculated in a combat if a ship with this device is destroyed or will it be only calculated at the beginning of the combat and then for the whole combat added to the ships?
JoSch
That last is a detail for the programmer. But it's fair that the destroyed ship don't add his bonus to the fleet. But if most of the players think that a max bonus of +100 is to much we can lower that. I can also change the device and add it to one ship.
Mivorari ships are still expansive in the build and they are not a money maker in the game. So i still wonder how many Ship Connection devices will be in a normal game.
--Mivorari 11:11, 6 December 2007 (CET)
After seeing Scav innamorata with total 110 evasive, I think we should lower to 25 ship for a +50 evasive. Or maybe even better change the bonus to +1 attack +1 evasive to a max of +25 attack & +25 evasive.
Lord Lancelot 14:29, 6 December 2007 (CET)
I know that the last point was one for the programmer. But if the creator say how it should work there is a greater change that it will be so implemented.
Can not say to the economy or income of the Mivorari. But the ships are cheaper then the Hive Mind ships of the RCS and they have IMHO a weak income too, compared to most other races. So not sure if there will become great numbers of ships with this device into a game. And I'm not sure how much the 1/2 PD odds against Large Weapon fire influence a battle. I would only point out, that it can give "Balance problems" special for fighter races and should be think/discussed about it before the race come out. Later changes in a race pack are very seldom. And think here is the right place to let a note about it.
The ships itself don't look so costly for me, looking to their stats and other devices. So many depends on the income of the race.
Other point, do it use any energy or fuel or other resources? Or have it a handicap like the RCS Hive Mind? Or can it be disrupted/countered say by Holo Decoys or the Energy blast from some weapons like Ion Guns?
Both ideas from Lord Lancelot sounds good for me, both are not so over the top. I would prefer a little the first one, as the Mivorari can not buy the Evasive-ET. But that the ships with this device have already a high evasive from 100 + 70, they come to 150 + 120 evasive and so the ships a very hard to destroy for an enemy and so lower the bonus on this way. At it is now, I think the +25 Attack and + 25 Evasive is the better solution.
JoSch
What if I change the standard evasive of both ships and limit the max evasive to +50 ?
With a plus of +1 or +2 for every added ship. And the Ship Connection ships start with a evasive of 50 (Mivorari White Star Monitor) and 20 (Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner)
Or:
Every ship, except the 2 ships with a Ship Connection get the bonus. So the Evasive of both ships will stay 100 (Mivorari White Star Monitor) and 70 (Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner)
A handicap will be fine for the other races. I will look to the possibilities.
Both ideas looks good to me, they avoid that the things for some ships go over the top. JoSch.
I like the idea that the Evasive of both ships will stay 100 (Mivorari White Star Monitor) and 70 (Mivorari Comet Blockade Runner) and they are not affected by the ship connection evasive (& attack) bonus. than 30 ships give +30 evasive (like the max ET bonus is +30 since they have no option of buying it) and also + 30 attack bonus.
A flaw vs a Large weapon, perhaps the PC Particle Cannon, divide by 2 the the evasive bonus of Mivorari ships.
I think the fuel limit would be a too great flaw (Every Ship Connection Device uses 3kt fuel for every Mivorari ship in the fleet per battle). Lord Lancelot 20:32, 7 December 2007 (CET)
[edit] PD
I don't know how the 1/2 PD odds will work into battle. Only a test race pack will tell us. Or test with other ships but with 1/2 of the PD slots fulled. But that is not a good test because the ships are different of the Mivorari ships.
--Mivorari 18:47, 7 December 2007 (CET)
Think it is a different test if you use 1/2 the PD slots or 1/2 PD odd. JoSch
Thats what i said.--Mivorari 01:36, 8 December 2007 (CET)
Other question, there are 3 PDs (Quad, TL and Auto) where the Intercept Bonus is 0. Flake have -10 and Conclusion have -40. How should the penalty of 1/2 PD odds work there. Using math, 1/2 * -10 = -5 or using the Idea behind and at under 0 they are doubled so that the Flake come to -20? Quad and TLs are often used and the have no penalty (cause 0 * x is 0)? So for the Programmer it is helpful, if you define what shall happens with this and for a reader of the guide if he know how to understand the 1/2 Pd odds.
JoSch
This is an idea of Tim. --Mivorari 22:00, 9 December 2007 (CET)
